Ancient Names Tell - Category 1_Capital Cities

Ancient Names Tell - Category 1_Capital Cities_Harbin
May 9, 2006 22:34
RITA Points: Join Date: May 10, 2005 Status: offline	Harbin: places along the banks of Songhua River had been Elysium of minority group of Manchurians, the ethnic group had been named as Sushen and Nuzhen in history. So the name of Harbin has unseparate connections with Manchu Language or the languages of any minority groups that had lived near the River, though none are spoken language today, a most regrettable fact indeed. There is no official explanations how the name came into being and what exactly the name means, but four explanations are accepted by most people that are interested, but all bounded themselves in pronunciation connections between the present day Chinese written form of 哈尔滨 and the several prononciations of the dead languages. 1, Riverside City of Fisherfolk: This is one of the earliest accepted explanations given, but more and more people start to show their suspicion over it. Harbin is a three syllable word in Chinese, Ha-Er-Bin. Ha or Hala(the sound) in ancient manchu language means "fish", the Ha -Er is the revision form of Ha-La, Bin meant exactly the same as present Chinese word, but when did people put Bin after Hala or Ha -Er is unknown. OR "Bin" was NOT really Chinese, we use it so long and take it for granted. 2, Swan: I myself prefer this explanation(but skepical):-) one of my best memories of Heilongjiang is about the beautiful swans. Once a wounded swan fell to the ground near my home, I fed it and bathed it:-) Some scholars say "Harbin" was origined from East Tujue, the original pronunciation is "Galouwen", Harbin is the transform(I doubted) of the ancient "Mid-land"(California, I borrowed mid-land from your travel review, I don't know if there is a special term in English to say "中原" thanks). In East Tujue language, Galouwen meant Swan, during the long evolution process, Manchu adopted the noun from East Tujue. 3, Black River Beach It was Mongolian language. Ha-Er or Ha-La means Black. Bin means River Beach. 4, Fishing Village Originated from Xibe language. The ethnic group of Xibe had a small population, and were all fishermen, Harbin was the biggest gathering place then. -------------------------------------------------- All the above ethnic groups mentioned above were small and dependent in languages and cultures, it's easy to understand they had a lot in common in language, at one time, a specific group was stonger than others, the others would be influenced by then, and vice versa. All the above sayings seem reasonable, but all might be wrong... Any new ideas??

Ancient Names Tell - Category 1_Capital Cities_Harbin

May 9, 2006 22:34

RITA
Points:
Join Date: May 10, 2005
Status: offline

Harbin: places along the banks of Songhua River had been Elysium of minority group of Manchurians, the ethnic group had been named as Sushen and Nuzhen in history. So the name of Harbin has unseparate connections with Manchu Language or the languages of any minority groups that had lived near the River, though none are spoken language today, a most regrettable fact indeed.

There is no official explanations how the name came into being and what exactly the name means, but four explanations are accepted by most people that are interested, but all bounded themselves in pronunciation connections between the present day Chinese written form of 哈尔滨 and the several prononciations of the dead languages.

1, Riverside City of Fisherfolk:
This is one of the earliest accepted explanations given, but more and more people start to show their suspicion over it. Harbin is a three syllable word in Chinese, Ha-Er-Bin. Ha or Hala(the sound) in ancient manchu language means "fish", the Ha -Er is the revision form of Ha-La, Bin meant exactly the same as present Chinese word, but when did people put Bin after Hala or Ha -Er is unknown. OR "Bin" was NOT really Chinese, we use it so long and take it for granted.

2, Swan:
I myself prefer this explanation(but skepical):-) one of my best memories of Heilongjiang is about the beautiful swans. Once a wounded swan fell to the ground near my home, I fed it and bathed it:-)

Some scholars say "Harbin" was origined from East Tujue, the original pronunciation is "Galouwen", Harbin is the transform(I doubted) of the ancient "Mid-land"(California, I borrowed mid-land from your travel review, I don't know if there is a special term in English to say "中原" thanks). In East Tujue language, Galouwen meant Swan, during the long evolution process, Manchu adopted the noun from East Tujue.

3, Black River Beach
It was Mongolian language. Ha-Er or Ha-La means Black. Bin means River Beach.

4, Fishing Village
Originated from Xibe language. The ethnic group of Xibe had a small population, and were all fishermen, Harbin was the biggest gathering place then.
--------------------------------------------------

All the above ethnic groups mentioned above were small and dependent in languages and cultures, it's easy to understand they had a lot in common in language, at one time, a specific group was stonger than others, the others would be influenced by then, and vice versa. All the above sayings seem reasonable, but all might be wrong...

Any new ideas??

May 9, 2006 22:45	#1
PINETREE Points: 2514 Join Date: Oct 9, 2005 Status: Offline	Hahaha ! Too deep for me, Rita.

May 10, 2006 00:07	#2
CALIFORNIA Points: Join Date: Jul 22, 2005 Status: Offline	Hi,Rita, You are the real member know "Mid-Land",yes!It means 中原！Thanks! For Harbin,I have heard the second one,and another meaning is "Flat Beach",similar to Manchurian "halfinn". In Heilongjiang,there were many cities' named by Machurian,like Qiqihar,Yichun,Mudanjiang,Jiamusi.

May 10, 2006 00:16	#3
ROGERINCA Points: Join Date: Jun 28, 2005 Status: Offline	So very interesting Rita !! So very beautiful are your words!! And yes, “Area south of the Yellow River” ("中原") would be correct in English, just as we reference area “west of the Mississippi” (River) in America. :) :)

May 10, 2006 01:32	#4
RITA Points: Join Date: May 10, 2005 Status: Offline	Hi California, I knew any topics about Dongbei will interest you, you definitely know more about Dongbei than me, I am grateful for the information. Roger, I also knew any topics about China will interest you:-). Thanks for the explanation about 中原.

May 10, 2006 03:05	#5
CALIFORNIA Points: Join Date: Jul 22, 2005 Status: Offline	Haha,Rita, Of course!!!Because I am Dongbeiren,especially Manchurian,and I'd like to talk about my nationality culture,languge and history. Good job.

May 10, 2006 03:20	#6
MAY001 Points: Join Date: Sep 28, 2005 Status: Offline	o, California. I just remembered that you are Mongolian. My poor memory??

May 10, 2006 03:27	#7
PINETREE Points: 2514 Join Date: Oct 9, 2005 Status: Offline	He is Manchurian or Nvzhen, not Mongolian. For once, I know better ?!

May 10, 2006 03:31	#8
CALIFORNIA Points: Join Date: Jul 22, 2005 Status: Offline	Haha, To May and Pinetree: California=3/4 Manchurian+ 1/4 Mongolian, Can you understand???

May 10, 2006 15:12	#9
ROGERINCA Points: Join Date: Jun 28, 2005 Status: Offline	Ha Ha, Calif’.... I , too, remembered this fact, (3/4 + 1/4) when you told me this several months ago, when I asked you about the roots of your distinctive Chinese family name !! I remember, everything people say to me !! Even some person's ‘birthdays” !! LOL LOL :) :) It's great to have you back here, after your Holiday trip, California !!!

May 10, 2006 19:58	#10
MAY001 Points: Join Date: Sep 28, 2005 Status: Offline	California=3/4 Manchurian+ 1/4 Mongolian Wow~~now I see. Maybe that is why you like traveling so much? You know, these groups are good called nomad. In fact, I do envy those nomads. I wish I could be a member of zingara!!

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