| Native English-Speakers ?? | |
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| Jun 8, 2006 06:10 |   |
 | I think most of us know that certain policies here insist on "native English-speakers". I note that the policy on "Columnists" here does not. But in other sectors of TCG, there is still the insistence of such a necessity. As the English language gradually becomes more widely used, there are countries/people who are not native English-speakers or who don't look caucasians but are very conversant in the language. And this is not uncommon. Take the example of my beautifully hot country - SG. Most of the people here spend at least between 12-17 yrs officially studying/communicating in that language in schools, sadly or not. It is not uncommon of us to start speaking English almost right after birth ! So much so that these comrades of mine cannot write/speak their own mother tongue - English has effectively become their mother tongue - ie Chinese, Malay or Indian. And this education system using English as the medium of instructions has been firmly in place with us for about 2-3 generations already. Our students generally score very good marks in USA's TOEFL & English exams organised by the UK universities beating many many native English-speakers hands down. In fact our high English standard is quite well known globally. On the other hand, not all caucasians write/speak English. In fact, native English-speakers do not form the majority of the caucasians (not sure tho). I have always felt strongly against such a policy on being "native English speakers only" to teach the language or even as proof-reading volunteers. Of cos orally there will be that difference in accents. Even the English, Scots, Welsh, Irish, USAmericans, Aussies/NZ speak with different accents. I think this policy reflects the ignorance or arrogance of such policy makers - unless their "native English-speakers" refers to all regular speakers/users of the language, regardless of colour of their skins and the features of their faces. Another example - what about the USAmerican blacks or yellows or... who are borne and raised in English-eaking countries ? Are they native English-speakers by the definition ? Are Spanish or Hungarians native English-speakers, even tho they are conversant in English ? Hahaha !! Have fun. PS - Is it true that USA has just declared that English is their official language now or something like that ? Only now !! |
| Jun 8, 2006 11:38 | #1 |
| Pinetree, Just a few weeks ago the American government made English it's National language. |
| Jun 8, 2006 20:51 | #2 |
| Yes Mike, u are right. It boils under to ignorance and bias. Even the general Chinese think so themselves and assume that caucasians are better English speakers than non-caucasians. LoveChina - thanks for the confirmation. PS - I think I shouldn't have used TCG as an example in this thread. Sorry about this. |
| Jun 12, 2006 08:22 | #3 |
| Hi Pinetree, I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at here with this thresd but can I make a comment as 'a native English speaker' Being a mono-lingual with English as my native tongues has some advantages and disadvantages. Being a 'native English speaker' simply means that you were born in a county where English is the formal language of education and also spoken in the home. Many 'native English speakers' unfortunatly do not have a good command of either the written or spoken language but they will still be given preference to 'non- native speakers' in the 'policy based environment'. Chinese language schools more often that not are biased in this manner. And there is a serious debate about whose accent is correct or not. English did originate in England which has many different dialects/accents and 'the Queens English' should be considered the most correct spoken English but it is not always so. I am thankful that I have been exposed to both the British and the American accents and differences in vocabulary thru television etc. and am often able to acurately tell where an English speaker is from simply by listening to a few key phonetic sounds. But in saying this there are so many variations in the Englsih language today that it is getting harder to tell and the language is evolving all the time. A disadvantage of many English speakers is the fact that we often only speak ONE language well when people from all around the world speak Englsih as a second or even third language. My goal is to become reasonably fluent in Mandarin. Not sure how long this will take but I will at least try. |
| Jun 13, 2006 23:35 | #4 |
| A report :- It is time for our 110% to be given. Singapore has a decent track record in the Worlds Schools Debating Championships, having reached the semi-finals in South Africa 2001 and the finals in Peru 2003. Jonathan Pflug was ranked Best Speaker of the tournament -- effectively making him World No. 1 -- in 2001, and in 2002 Rohini Singh was ranked 2nd. To my knowledge the Singapore team has never ranked below number 10 since we first took part in 1995. We have beaten nations with millions more native speakers and talents to their name, so we're not half bad. WSDC is admittedly a small tournament comprising of 37 English-speaking nations. UNQUOTE So much for "native English speakers" of UK, Canada, USA, Australia/NZ. Hehehe !! |
| Jun 14, 2006 00:02 | #5 |
| We speak english just as good as anyone from the native english-speaking countries. And we write equally well. We are on par with them in many ways although english is not our native language. We don't really need them to teach us the language. We speak english long before we started to walk. The problem is that we tend to add some local colloquial terms into the vocabulary that is not understood by other native english speakers. Similarly, the english language spoken by other foreign countries may also have such a problem. English is a living language and continue to grow with new words. An example is the word "chinglish" & "singlish" These are accepted english words although these are not the original proper english word. |
| Jun 14, 2006 01:08 | #6 |
| I hope you will fulfil your goal of being fluent in spoken Mandarin, as well as written Chinese - so much so that you are as good as the local Chinese, Jab. And when u are barred from certain jobs or from participation in any projects that require Chinese, just because you are not native Chinese-speakers, u will face what the non-native English speakers are presently facing. The point is that all these "bullshit" boil down to prejudice, discrimination, bias & ignorance on the part of the policy-makers. It reflects their lack of exposure on what is going on outside their own circles. "Native English speakers preferred" - what does "preferred" mean ? It is just giving the selector/policy-makers a way out of a situation where they could be seen as discrinatory - that's all. In the West it is criminal to be seen as discriminatory. Just look at the recent advertisement here to recruit English language teacher by a Recruitment Co from Beijing - they reflect the same attitude. Isn't it sad ? |
| Jun 14, 2006 01:28 | #7 |
| O, I forgot to mention that our teams participating in those World School Debates(in English) are not necessarily coached by "native-English-speakers" as defined by some authorities here. Most of our English language teachers are infact local - ie Chinese, Indian & Malay. |
| Jun 14, 2006 01:31 | #8 |
| It seems tome we have some confusion here. Dreamcatcher does not say where he/she is from, but I guess Singapore as he says that they learn it before they begin to walk and Pinetree also talked about this. But what about China? In my experience, (just one academic year, I know), I am sure Chian still benefits from having what has so far been called 'native speakers'. The real issue is the terminology: Pinetree mentioned 'policies'. In China everything is policies and rules driven, rather than merit driven. The schools need English teachers who can provide clear guidance in good oral pronunciion (not 'proNOUNciation' as American speakers usually say). I have many students who have never been corrected on some basic points: clear distinguishable vowels, correct consonants such as 'v', 'w', and 'th', and on stress. Incorrect stress makes English very hard to follow. Back to my original point - I have heard so-called native English speakers on CCTV9 who are incomprehensible to me - I am of British / Australian background but I need subtitles to understand some of the Americans! China needs to decide some speech standards and then select teachers and public presenters based on their ability to stay close to those standards, regardless of thier nationality. Then it doesn't matter where you come from (except China, becuase you still won't get the foreign salary scale - but that's another issue!), and it may be that if American English (an oxymoron if ever there was one) is to become the standard, I will no longer have a job here! |
| Jun 14, 2006 04:47 | #9 |
| Yes, Apault, that's the whole point of my thread. But why are the authorities not clear on this ? Do we presume that a Chinese borne in say, USA or England and starts speaks the language from birth, is a native English-speaker ? Are there other reasons for insisting that English teachers be caucasian native English-speakers ? I think I have been harping on this topic for too long. But I find the attitude towards this rather amusing. Let's close this thread and thanks to all for the contribution. |
| Jun 16, 2006 17:06 | #10 |
| The United States has not declared English as the national language. American-english is the language of technology. A dozen years ago, I was hired by one of Europe's equivalents to the US Nuclear Energy Commission to act as their official spokesman for conventions because they wanted a native, American-english speaker. That ruffled quite a few feathers, but it worked. A common language binds the people. While China must manage fenyang the written language provides coherent communication. At least that is what I've read and been told. Technology is merging us into one community. There is some good and a lot of bad in the transition. Personally, I prefer to see an old cigar box and abacus used by vendors rather than a barcode scanner and electronic cash register. The transition will bring many sad losses. |
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