| Is teaching a decent job in your country? | |
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| Sep 10, 2008 03:53 |   |
 | September 10th is China’s Teachers’ Day. We Chinese people pay tribute to teachers and extend our gratitude for the respectable teachers. I have read a report just now which states that up to 40% teachers at primary and secondary schools in Britain have the intention to resign in the coming 5 years and will no longer be in teaching. The report says teaching is a stressful job in Britain but does not specify the clear factors. Well in China, teaching is considered to be a decent job：More vacations, less pressure. I can’t help thinking about the British Teacher’s Strike on April 24 this year. It was the first national strike in 21 years in Britain. A majority of primary and secondary schools were forced to close down due to teachers’ walk-out. The purpose of strike was to demand improved pay. What about the average annual income of a teacher in UK? Are most teachers in Britain underpaid? I am told that the average annual income of a teacher in UK is about 20,000--50,000 pounds. Is this very low? Education has been put on a top agenda in China. What about the real situation of western education? I remembered that two American friends (Cloudhands and REMAG1234) said that there seems to be a Dumping Down of Education (a movement against education) in USA. What I am concerned with is if this phenomenon just happens in Britain and USA. Or there is a common dumping down of education in the whole western world? Is teaching still a decent job in your country? British demonstrators held the banner on April 24: Fair pay for teachers!  |
| Sep 10, 2008 03:55 | #1 |
| Students: Pay Our Teachers More! |
| Sep 10, 2008 07:16 | #2 |
| A small clarification: the term is Dumbing Down, and it implies that the curriculum is designed to ensure, to a larger extent, that the less "intellectually gifted" students can advance through the system. That is, the mandate is that all students pass, rather than most passing with a handful failing. Clearly, this type of system is detrimental to the brighter kids, who must suffer through school with little in the way of a challenge. The option for the parents is to seek out private schools which are geared towards a more difficult curriculum. In Canada, the pay is decent, and the amount of vacation time exceeds other jobs by quite a large margin. On the other hand, teachers have their hands tied behind their backs in many ways, since they have very little latitude in the way of disciplining the kids, and kids know this. And many, if not most, parents refuse to believe that their "little Johnny" can be a big proctological nuisance in the classroom, and the teachers cannot strike, detain, demote or otherwise punish disruptive behavior without having parents and the school administration demanding an explanation. As a result, many teachers quit the profession. |
| Sep 10, 2008 11:34 | #3 |
| Teachers in the U.S. are not held in anywhere near the regard that Chinese hold for teachers. We have an expression - "Those that can- do. Those that can't - teach." I personally have known public school teachers and college teachers who are not particularly bright. College professors may be smart in one area they specialize in but they are not necessarily wise. Many teachers just teach from a textbook and load students with homework or reading assignments that the student could complete without the classes. As public school teachers salaries are paid by the residents of the school district , many residents do not want to pay anymore than they have to in taxes for their school system. Some resent the fact that from the end of June until the beginning of September there is no public school and the teachers are off that time as well as many school holidays. Plus the hours - schools in the U.S. generally run from 8AM to 3 PM and no classes on Saturday or in evenings. Many parents pay for their kids to go to private schools ( like I pay for my daughter to go to Catholic school) because the public schools are less effective. Teachers continually complain about their pay and school administrators get higher salaries. |
| Sep 10, 2008 19:51 | #4 |
| In Australia we have just been told that we spend less on Education than many countries. We recently removed the Howard government which was responsible for the Federal funding: this government was against government expenditure in education and health and sought to have citizens choose 'private'. he was successful as people chose these options with the decline of the public system. In fact, using a 'postcode' formula that government diverted money away from poor and needy schools to the richer ones (remembering that pribate schools also receive government funding)! This was done by assessing determining the average income per household in each postcode. Then you look at the postcode for the students at each school to calcculate their funding. The problem is that many rich boarding schools draw students from the poorer rural areas - however, only the rich kids are sent to the expensive schools as the rest cannot afford it, and rural businesses, ie farmers,often have only moderate incomes but they are capital rich (and hardly in need of subsidy. I believe this is slowly being redressed. The current issue in the State of NSW is how teachers are allocated to schools. In the past the school principals had little say, the allocation was made according to a formula. Now it is proposed to allow teachers to apply to schools and for principles to select which staff they want. Teachers are opposed to this system (though it is -or was- the system in the UK and as a student way back, seemed to work well). I do not think teachers are as well regarded here as in China. Firstly, many students become teachers because they could not get into other courses; and related to that, the pay is well below what iindustry pays so it is not attractive to many young people; some only teach so as to be able to have the same holidays as their kids; teachers are perceived as having a cushy job; and too many parents have tended to hnd over everything about bringing up kids to the teachers and only get involved to complain. Teachers have real difficulty with discipline and discipline in the home is often very lax, and they are not permitted to apply much punishment. Add to that the child safely regulations - you cannot put your arm around a child who is crying without fear of being accused of sexual abuse - and overall, we can see there are many 'issues' in education here. I taught in the UK 35 years ago but I never taught in the main education system in Australia. There is no way I would want to teach in either country now. I'll stick to teaching in China, even with the issues I have mentioned in other threads. |
| Sep 10, 2008 21:12 | #5 |
| WCTMAN, Sorry, I copied the term from Remag1234. Obviously, I made a stupid spelling mistake when I copied the term. Thanks for your correction >>.On the other hand, teachers have their hands tied behind their backs in many ways, since they have very little latitude in the way of disciplining the kids, and kids know this. ......As a result, many teachers quit the profession.<< This is probably why 40% teachers at primary and secondary schools hope to quit teaching. That is to say, teachers have to face occupational stress (pressure). The stress imposed on teachers is mainly from school administration, kids and their parents. In terms of disciplining the kids, in today's China, Chinese teachers confront the same problem as teachers in Canada encounter. Yea, "today's teachers have little latitude in the way of discipling the kids", and many kids take advantage of this. I understand this situation well, since both my mother and my two elder sisters are teachers and they often talk about the subject with me. My mother said that in the past teachers have much freedom to discipline the kids. Teachers could even use the rod to punish the naughty kids. ( In many cases, the saying" spare the rod, spoil the child" is a truth). Today, if teachers beat a kid's hand as slight punishment, they are perceived as exercising physical abuse. The worse thing is the kids know you dare not punish them and they ignore discipline. Meanwhile, under China's examination-oriented educational system, if the kids can not get good scores in the exams, it is teachers who are first blamed by the kids' teachers and the school administration. |
| Sep 10, 2008 21:13 | #6 |
| >>Teachers in the U.S. are not held in anywhere near the regard that Chinese hold for teachers. We have an expression - "Those that can- do. Those that can't - teach."<< Yinduffy, is this a popular belief held by the average Americans? Is it safe for me to say that a great majority of Americans make light of teachers. Teaching is not considered to be a decent job in USA. Do you think that the teachers in USA are well paid? >>teachers are perceived as having a cushy job; and too many parents have tended to hnd over everything about bringing up kids to the teachers and only get involved to complain. Teachers have real difficulty with discipline and discipline in the home is often very lax, and they are not permitted to apply much punishment.<< Apault, as I have said in the above, the same scenario happens to China. That's part of teachers' occupational stress. In terms of discipline or punishment, have you ever been allowed to spank your students in China? I guess that the school authority never give you the permission to apply much punishment. Ho ho! >>The current issue in the State of NSW is how teachers are allocated to schools. In the past the school principals had little say...Now it is proposed to allow teachers to apply to schools and for principles to select which staff they want.<< Now, the alllocation of teachers in China is heading towards this way. |
| Sep 10, 2008 21:18 | #7 |
| I agree that many parents just cannot accept the fact that their kids are not so smart. I am not saying this to put anyone down. It’s just a fact of life that not everyone in this world is smart. Some are, some are not. But it is natural for many parents to not believe that their own children are the latter. Although teaching here is not considered a 100 thousand dollar job unless you are an elite professor in an elite university, the pay is not really too shabby. However, there are strict laws when it comes to teacher-student interactions. Treating the students differently, harming them in any way (mentally or physically), getting too close to them will definitely invite lawsuits. I heard if they flunk a student they also get sued. Not too sure about that though. Personally, I think teachers and scientists are doing more good for this world than athletes or celebrities yet their pay is just a small fraction compared to the last two. Something is definitely wrong there. And one last rant: Why am I paying school taxes when I don’t have kids who are using the school? Shouldn’t I be exempted? I don’t know if I am going to win a debate with the IRS agent though. *sob* |
| Sep 10, 2008 21:22 | #8 |
| “We recently removed the Howard government which was responsible for the Federal funding: this government was against government expenditure in education and health and sought to have citizens choose 'private'. he was successful as people chose these options with the decline of the public system.” Paul, people chose the private school option because it was a better product. It was also cheaper as per head is spent on children going to private schools than on those attending public schools. State governments in Australia are responsible for the majority of the funding for the public school system as you would know. The NSW Labour government have been inept over the past number of years to say the least, selling off valuable school; assets to friends of the party. The weakness in the Public system IMO is that they are not allowed or able to accumulate assets or receive private donations or at this time pick and choose their staff. This last point is possibly the result of their own very left leaning unions decisions who have also been responsible for not wanting their member results judged, leading to good teachers getting the same salaries as the poorer performing ones. Private schools on the other hand are able to do all of the above and are able to pick and choose the best staff and pay salaries to attract the best. The large majority of parents that choose the private school system are not rich. They make sacrifices that some seem to think the government should be paying for. My youngest son is now enjoying his last year at a Sydney boarding school and has had a wonderful experience. One that will stay with him for the rest of his life. The Staff have been nothing short of unbelievable and have my deepest respect for the contribution that they have made in regards to this. Dodger. |
| Sep 11, 2008 03:20 | #9 |
| It is absolutely a decent job in China. Look, the parents asked their kids to kowtow to their teacher at a kingdergarten in Dongguan city in Guangdong province yesterday(on the Teachers' Day). Kowtow was an ancient etiquette. Ancient grassroots performed kowtow to the Emperors. In the modern China, it should be abandoned. Bow is enough to show the respect for your teacher. |
| Sep 11, 2008 20:23 | #10 |
| I agree with with SHESGOTTOBE. Teaching is a decent job but only for elite professors in elite universities. |
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