| Chinese Lack Confidence ? | |
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| Feb 9, 2006 02:47 |   |
 | I read an earlier thread on Foreigners and Chinese gals and vice versa. I was taken aback at the content of the discussion pointing to a 'lack of confidence" of the Chinese men for not able hook up with foreign women and the tone/manner of the discussion. I do not wish to particpate in that discussion as I feel it quite degrading for the local people. But I do feel compelled to offer a clarification on the behaviour of the Chinese which foreigners( esp the caucasians) termed as "lack of confidence". To me, the Chinese have a long cultural history - longer than probably any other countries in the world. Confucius + several other ancient philosophers came up with some wonderful structured ideas of how the country be run & its people behaved. The consequence is the long-embedded Confucianism which spread to even the surrounding regions like Korea/Japan. Some of the basic elements in COnfucianism are "humiliy", "consideration", pride & dignity - simply one has to be humble and be considerate & knowing the limit. As such you don't find the Chinese persisting in befriending others and insisting on getting their company - unlike quite a lot of foreigners whom to the Chinese are rather "thick-skin", we don't insist on getting a date from a gal. The Caucasians will not let go - they will sweet talk & beg if necessary for the gal's company. In most cases they are successful as it is the gal who feels "bad" not accepting him ! Some of these caucasians will show off their "catch" to other people - like printing some of such photos on this forum. To them this is their success. To the Chinese this is improper. Success at personal pride and dignity is not a prize a common Chinese man or woman is willing to pay. Another reason is that the Chinese don't speak a foreign language but are keen to learn. Coupled with the fact that they are generally MCP, it is considered not proper for the Chinese man to persist in dating a gal - foreigner or not. It is a very complicated situation - not lack of confidence. Rather it is "face" value. With globalisation, the situation will change. Confuciansim will be eroded/discarded with times and the Chinese will probably & hopefully behave in foreign countries and take their women like the Caucasians are now in China and yet pass such comments openly about them then. Wake up Chinese men and gals - please ! |
| Feb 9, 2006 03:41 | #1 |
| hi Pinetree, i felt i had to post after your very astute comments. I have not read the posts from the other newsgroup that you refer to , but from what you say it seems remarkable to me that Chinese culture , and in particular men, are being criticised for showing what is considered respect. This is something in my experience that is severly lacking in the western world, in a society where is considered 'ok' to harass women, sleaze onto them and generally pester the opposite sex. I look forward to my travels where respect and courtesy to all is deemed the 'norm'. Hurrah for traditional values and people taking the time to get to know one another. Thank you for such an interesting post. |
| Feb 9, 2006 20:00 | #2 |
| You have your say. Called it what you want, but things are happening right before everyone's eyes. In time to come, globalisation will caused the chinese to be as western as the westerners. Globalisation comes with a heavy price. You cannot move forward and still try to maintain traditional values. If you walk down any chinese cities you are very likely to see western fast food chains. |
| Feb 9, 2006 22:30 | #3 |
| We have digressed. Nonetheless, do not confuse modernisation with westernisation - they are different. Modernisation just means that you are moving on with times(technologies, fashion,etc) and basically not linked directly with culture. At the moment, the westerns take the lead in modernisation. Hopefully one day in the future, China can set the trend for other countries to follow. Already in the town of Brighton, England, it is now compulsory for primary school children to learn Chinese. But the English don't give up their traditions and cultural values just because of learning Chinese. One can still be modern without discarding his traditional or unique values. Maybe eating western fast foods is modern in China for now but it has got nothing to do with Confucianism and one's beliefs/behaviours. In the West, they scramble for Chinese food & it is deemed high class to "eat Chinese". They too can't afford to eat beef steak everyday (in actual fact they eat everyday potatoes and bread)& there are many poor people on the streets begging for alms. Similarly the japanese don't eat sashimi, sushi, shabu-shabu & teppanyaki everyday - only on occasions ; their normal daily diet are noodles and rice lumps. And just like there are Chinese find better jobs overseas, these foreigners come and look for better job opportunities in China too. It is the same all over the world. The summary of my 1st message is that the Chinese are held back by the structured & constraints of Confucianism. We lose out in this current world because we are too "gentlemen". When we come into a situation with Westerners, it is like "scholars facing soldiers" and we are made a mockery of for being a gentlemen. To combat this, maybe we need to change - for better or for worse ? China is not as backward as most Chinese think - they just have not reached a stage that they could travel out easily to see the world for themselves and to compare. Think about it. Hope u understand my comments. |
| Feb 10, 2006 00:46 | #4 |
| Dear PINETREE, Please understand, not all Westerners (Caucasians) think the same (alike) about China and Chinese men and women. Please, do not let any unpleasant experience(s) you might have had with some pompous, arrogant, and chauvinistic individuals, allow you to stereotype all of us from the West!! :) :) I, for one, and many other western aquaintences of mine, understand and respect China and the citizens of China. I, speaking for myself, have [always] had the utmost respect and regard for Chinese men and woman as individuals and human beings !! China is a great nation, and in my mind, very soon to be the next superpower on this Earth. China, as you know, has a rich and ancient culture/history. Chinese men and women are highly intelligent and productive and creative. I always tell all my Chinese friends in China and in America....be PROUD you are Chinese !!! When I travel to China, I endeavor to ensure I never come across as an elitist or as a person who thinks he is better than those that live in the host country. Whenever I visit China, I always conduct myself as one who is a ‘privileged guest’ in a wonderful place. I always treat the man who is the manager of the hotel the same as the man who cleans my room in that hotel....With kindness and respect, as individuals, and fellow human beings. I say this to you with sincerity and with passion. I am so thankful that I live in a State in America (California) that is so tolerant and so culturally diverse, and which has such a large Asian and Chinese population. I am thankful that my young Nephew is married to a lovely Chinese woman. I am thankful my young Niece is married to a wonderful Chinese man. I am thankful I have a wonderful, kind, intelligent, Chinese woman (Guangzhou) in my life too. My life is so much more enriched by all of these personal experiences !! To those of you on this site who are Chinese, and can read this....Be proud !! Be confident !! Feel good !! Hold your head up high and don’t ever take any abuse from anyone who thinks he is better than you, no matter what his/her ethnicity or national origin !!! And now, having said all of this, let’s all of us have a great time, great interaction, and mutual respect and friendship, here on this uniquely wonderful site, TCG !! :) :) |
| Feb 10, 2006 01:03 | #5 |
| WOCCA | -General- | 2006-02-10 00:00:03 GMT-6 Reply this discussion Reply Back to Discussion list Back What would you like to see happen in an "ideal world" . I won't give you a direct answer - it would hurt u. |
| Feb 10, 2006 01:03 | #6 |
| why don't we talk about something more practical and intersting ? |
| Feb 10, 2006 01:40 | #7 |
| Such as ?? |
| Feb 10, 2006 03:58 | #8 |
| I wasn't going to weigh in on this, but now I feel I must. I agree with everything you have said Rogernica. I would add that some Western men (me for instance) sometimes feel like aliens in their own culture. I have always felt that good manners, kindness, compassion, gentleness were (are) the only way to go when dealing with others. Sadly, in the West, too large a dose of these qualities in a man is considered unmanly. No wonder I was drawn to the East. I have only been to China once, but I enjoyed every minute I spent there. The people I encountered were unfailingly friendly, polite and patient with me. I will visit again, I hope many times. |
| Feb 10, 2006 18:46 | #9 |
| Pinetree, do you consume a great deal of alcohol before typing a post here? This is a melodramatic rambling of a passionate man that really does not have many true facts and seems to lose the ‘essence’ of what this wonderful community is all about. You seem to be a man of great love for Chinese culture but really are not saying anything productive about/or to your people and this community. You seem not to have any real knowledge of most Westerners and I thank those that have corrected you already in this post. I have read the ‘other thread’ and quite simply, you have issues with others in this Forum and you seem to use every opportunity to attack them. Please reread this paragraph before you write another essay. “Wake up Chinese men and gals - please !” I do believe the PRC is definitely waking up, and you seem to want to sleep a little longer. Now please tell all of us; as I have read many of your postings - what you really want to see in China’s future? With respect, I am truly interested, Sir. |
| Feb 10, 2006 20:28 | #10 |
| I don't think you are really interested in what I have to say, either. tahnk you for your views and comments, too. Go back and sleep please. |
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