| Do you believe that Chinese circumnavigated the world in 1421? | |
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| Mar 29, 2007 20:20 | #21   |
 | Thanks for explaination, Paul. You are a good teacher!! |
| Mar 29, 2007 22:15 | #22 |
| Apault, good one. Perhaps they assembled gigantic husky teams to drag the ships over the ice when conditions weren't favourable? |
| Mar 30, 2007 18:54 | #23 |
| Thanks May :). And yes Chris, I hadn't thought of that! Was Hannibal about at that time???? |
| Apr 1, 2007 23:08 | #24 |
| So who gets credit for the discovery of the Americas? Western history likes to give credit to Columbus, but it seems to me that the Americas were already populated by people who came from Asia over the ice of the Bering Straits. Correct? So what significance does discovery by a sea route really have, except to Western history. ??? |
| Apr 2, 2007 00:40 | #25 |
| Well, Griz, that is the right question. And besides, Columbus wasn't the first European in America, and he never even reached the mainland, just a few islands in the Caribbean. The Vikings were there around about AD1000, before even Zheng He was supposed to have shown up. But what everybody seems to forget is that America was really discovered about 40,000 years ago by people walking over the Bering Landbridge. So that gives native Americans the gold medal, the Vikings get silver, and Columbus and Zheng He can fight over who gets bronze. |
| Apr 2, 2007 11:40 | #26 |
| May, Thanks for these beautiful shots of the model ships. Picturing them to true scale, they are impressive and surely capable of long tedious sea voyages. What a name too "Treasure Ships" Where they out to collect a county too?? This is certainly and interesting topic and discussion. I hope to find some time to follow up on a few of these articles you guys have mentioned. Great to see we have a few 'sailors' here! What a difference four feet of water line can make? |
| Apr 15, 2007 19:52 | #27 |
| Hi I am afraid that Gavin Menzies book - 1421, is an hoax. To give you some background on the matter, you should know that Mr. Menzies is not the brightest person around. He is well known for his disastrous command of the Royal Navy submarine HMS Rorqual, which he rammed into the U.S. Navy minesweeper, USS Endurance in 1969. He also is well known for being a publicity seeker, and was declared a vexatious litigant by the HM Courts Service in the United Kingdom. After reading the book, any knowledgeable scholar or academic can easily conclude the entire story is made up. In fact the book contains so many errors, deceitful and false quotations, that should be considered as fiction. His so-called investigation was such a shambles that in July 2006 he himself admitted to the Australian TV program Four Corners that he was wrong about Zheng He discovery of America. Nonetheless if you are interested in the Treasure Fleet voyages, I suggest instead you read Louise Levathes – When China Ruled The Seas – which gives you an easy to read account of all the voyages from East Africa to the Spice Islands.  |
| Apr 15, 2007 20:26 | #28 |
| About GRIZ questions about Western history giving credit to Columbus for the discovery of America: The answer is quite simple: 1) It's true that the Americas were already populated by people who came from Asia and Siberia over the ice of the Bering Straits. Recent archeologic discoveries and DNA tests show that even before those Asian migrations, people from southern France traveled to America. Paleo-archeologists now feel that the Salutrians traveled in skin boats across the frontier of the ice sheet all the way to this continent. 2) Based on Archeological research, It is also generally acepted that the Vikings sailed to America around ca. 1000. 3) The reason why the discovery of America is credited to Columbus as to do with the fact that historically, that was the voyage that lead to the colonization of the continent. An historical major event which consequences were decisive in shaping the continent we have today. From Language to Religion, Culture etc, the link to western civilization is obvious. In conclusion, nobody is going to care much if tomorrow is proven, that let's say for example, that Saint Brendan was really in America, as I have already explained the real impact on the continent's history was made by the Spanish and Portuguese. |
| Apr 15, 2007 21:51 | #29 |
| Thanks!!! I've learned a lot from this thread, it's been a very interesting discussion. So many smart people here :-) |
| Apr 15, 2007 21:56 | #30 |
| Well, I hadn't heard of the Salutrians before, but a quick google search shows up this: http://melrosemirror.media.mit.edu/ 303034706167653030375765625061676530303269643030353131 333336 which, despite the MIT address, doesn't strike me as being particularly serious scholarship, and says nothing about the Salutrians arriving before the Asians. Then there's this: http://answers.yahoo.com/ which contains these statements: "The Salutrians (White Europeans) Were The FIRST People In The Americas" and "The "Native Americans" (Injuns) Are Descendents Of Europeans (Salutrians) And The Asian Migrants (Eskimoes) Which Arrived Some 10,000 - 16,000 Years Later White Europeans Were The FIRST People In The Americas" The discussion in that thread is also incredibly childish. These statements set some serious alarm bells going in my head. Why is the author so eager to prove the "White Europeans" were the first people in North America? A little further down the list of google results we have a link to STormfront, a self-described White Nationalist group. No, I'm not even going to open that one or post a link here, I'll have no part in promoting fascism. Anyway, suffice it to say I'm having a lot of trouble finding any solid, reliable information about these Salutrians. Maybe I should try Google Scholar? Maybe not, Google Scholar turns up no results. So I'm sorry, but I'm going to treat these claims about Salutrians with the same scepticism I treat Gavin Menzies. |
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