| Staking lives because of poverty | |
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| Dec 26, 2007 13:55 | #21   |
 | Better news, development developes. And thanks for coming back to original topic, Johnny. (we´re out because of me) Carlos |
| Dec 26, 2007 20:33 | #22 |
| CARLOS, Don't apologize! We are just having an open discussion. Some problems are universal. As Griz326 pointed that in America, the living and working conditions of coal miners are also very poor. Perhap, every society has the invisible working poor and the price of developement is being paid by the blood, sweat and tears of the working poor. What about the coal-mining industry in Nordic countries? Do they have the same problems? |
| Dec 26, 2007 21:38 | #23 |
| Yes Carlos; back to the original purpose of the thread, so you can make some sense out your thoughts. |
| Dec 27, 2007 09:47 | #24 |
| JCL, when goes intellectuell, it is very difficult for me to express myself in English, so I only throw something in the air. About mining in Nordic countries, I have very little knowledge about it. All I know is that there are no significant accidents reported as far as I remember during years. My idea is that here mining is quite HiTec-industry and mines here are quite safe. Earlier in thread about pregnant cleaning woman I told we have very strong laws protecting workers. Carlos |
| Dec 27, 2007 17:56 | #25 |
| II certainly can understand that Carlos, I have a very similar issue as I travel to Latin America. I can speak very fluently Spanish, until I found my self lost. Subsequently I recognize I am not saying what I want to say. Happy New Year! |
| Dec 27, 2007 19:33 | #26 |
| Leo, sometimes people do not tell the fact, Sometimes because they don’t know it, others because they have something in mind (agenda), Others because they really think that they know the fact, Fact is that the people that listen should trust but verify. You know. In the USA, you can see all kind of activist and hippie like people stock in the 1960’s, all of them with an agenda to follow. To be reasonable fair I think Griz was talking about many years ago as a young man, nothing related to the present days. Know that, IF he pretends to make the life of the Chinese miner equal to the USA miner, I WILL say that he needs to check the facts, sadly, no possible comparison. Here is a chart of the average annual income of a coal miner in one of the mayor producer States of coal in the USA, which is West Virginia, follow by Pennsylvania. Out of respect, Know I sincerely hate to show you the difference in income relate to China, but I hate more to see you repeating something that it is not a fact. However, remember to take in to account the average difference in the standard of living. I work as a finance manager for GMC Chevrolet and so I have access to the income information of any one that wants a loan, I assure you that there are a great number of Americans that don’t make much as an American coal miner.  |
| Dec 28, 2007 22:20 | #27 |
| Quote: >>Leo, sometimes people do not tell the fact,Sometimes because they don’t know it, others because they have something in mind (agenda),Others because they really think that they know the fact,<< JCN, I agree. I know there are still many interest groups that have some political agenda. Numerous lobbyists hawk their agenda everywhere from the hearings in Capitol Hill to the small neighborhoods in urban areas. China also has many interests groups that strive for their agenda. Turn to the right track, JC, you are doubting the picture I depicted about the living condition of China's coal miners? If this is the point you are suspecting, I am confident to say that you don't know about China for real. Or to be precise, at least you don't contact the grassroots living at the bottom of Chinse society. >>To be reasonable fair I think Griz was talking about many years ago as a young man, nothing related to the present days, Know that, IF he pretends to make the life of the Chinese miner equal to the USA miner, I WILL say that he needs to check the facts, sadly, no possible comparison.<<. If you are suspecting the scenario of American coal miners that Griz has described, I am not qualified to make a judgement. Perhaps, you are right that" there are a great number of Americans that don’t make much as an American coal miner." I am not sure whether Griz was aware of the present living condition of US coal miners when he talked about the experiences as young lad. Who knows? Only Griz326 can give us the answer. As to the situation of US coal mining industry, I am an outsider. You and Griz have more rights to say on the issue since you can get more chances to interact with the native coal miners. Hopefully, some other native Americans who are close to American coal miners may offer us more convincing facts. That would be better. Anyhow, thanks for the chart you attached! It's a pity that the chart is not clear. |
| Dec 28, 2007 23:59 | #28 |
| Leo I come to think that perhaps you do not understand me; I am going to go part by part. This, it is a generic statement directed to any one but you, and refers to average individuals, nothing, to do with any institution public or private. Leo, sometimes people do not tell the fact, (MEANING THE TRUTH) Sometimes because they don’t know it, others because they have something in mind (agenda), others because they really think that they know the fact, Quote, ((JCN, I agree. I know there are still many interest groups that have some political agenda. Numerous lobbyists hawk their agenda everywhere from the hearings in Capitol Hill to the small neighborhoods in urban areas. China also has many interests groups that strive for their agenda.)) ===============================================( |
| Dec 29, 2007 00:00 | #29 |
| I wrote this in reference to the monumental difference between the Chinese miner and the USA miner. NOT POSIBLE, AN EQUAL COMPARATIVE, BETWEEN ONE AND THE OTHER, SADLY. Know that, IF he pretends to make the life of the Chinese miner equal to the USA miner, I WILL say that he needs to check the facts, ((I wrote)) SADLY, NO POSSIBLE COMPARISON. Quote, ((Turn to the right track, JC, you are doubting the picture I depicted about the living condition of China's coal miners? If this is the point you are suspecting, I am confident to say that you don't know about China for real. Or to be precise, at least you don't contact the grassroots living at the bottom of Chinse society. )) I have to ask to you, how can you possible think that I doubt the living standards of the Chinese miner? Let me tell you something, it is more possible for a western individual to see the differences than any local Chinese can; we are so use and take for granted the privileges we enjoy in the western countries, and we only come to realize the magnitude of such privileges ones we travel abroad. I like to share with you now, not just the miners, but must everybody in China, the income gap and working conditions compare with the west are big, and as big, your brain can think. In the USA, there is everything and any thing a person wants, only in excesses. A rich person living standards are the same regardless the country he/she live in. Everything boils down to what he/she wants. Leo, impossible it is to compare between a Chinese miner and a USA miner, except the job title, MINER. ============================================= Leo, there is not a single sense of suspicions or doubts on my words, there ARE NOT such painful living for the miners in the USA today, if any one thinks that the USA miner are living a duplicate of the Chinese counterparts, he has been hibernating for too long of a winter. >>To be reasonable fair I think Griz was talking about many years ago as a young man, nothing related to the present days, Know that, IF HE PRETENDS TO MAKE THE LIFE OF THE CHINESE MINER EQUAL TO THE USA MINER, I WILL SAY THAT HE NEEDS TO CHECK THE FACTS, SADLY, NO POSSIBLE COMPARISON.<<. Quote, ((If you are suspecting the scenario of American coal miners that Griz has described, I am not qualified to make a judgement. Perhaps, you are right that" there are a great number of Americans that don’t make much as an American coal miner." I am not sure whether Griz was aware of the present living condition of US coal miners when he talked about the experiences as young lad. Who knows? Only Griz326 can give us the answer.)) |
| Jan 1, 2008 20:36 | #30 |
| JCNILE123, I understood your points well. I crave for facts. If possible, I will probe into the facts with my own eyes. Anyhow, thank you for offering me a defferent picture or perspetive to view the scenarion of US miners. Happy New Year. |
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