| Chinese educational system | |
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| Dec 27, 2009 20:03 |   |
 | A few years ago there was considerable discussion on this forum about the Chinese educational system. The essence of it was that the Chinese way of memorization was inferior to the Western methods of education. I never believed that and can now offer evidence of the quality of Chinese education: My Chinese daughter (step-daughter) has been in the USA since July of 2008. At the time, here English education was only what was offered at schools in Nanning. Her score on her first TOEFL test was not quite good enough to get into US Universities; she did very well on her second test, unfortunately her test scores were not available in time for her to get into a great US university. She did very well on her first SAT test, but excelled on the second one. She completed high school here in Montana with a 3.95 grade point average which put her in the top graduating seniors. She is now completing her first semester at the University of Montana in the pre-pharmacy program. I have not yet seen her grades, but she got an A- in her toughest subject, English writing, so I am hopeful that she did very well. She works very hard. It would take a very rare American student to move to China and achieve similar success. While it is easy to be critical of Chinese educational methods, the proof is in the results. My girl is proof. Do not be pursaded by the arguments against Chinese educational methods. Chinese methods may be very difficult and slow, but, for your dedicated children, effective.  |
| Dec 27, 2009 20:10 | #1 |
| Correcting a mistake: >>>At the time, here English education It should be: At the time, her English education My apologies for the error. |
| Dec 28, 2009 03:46 | #2 |
| I was talking to a Chinese teacher just the other day. She was explaining that at the beginning of every term the teachers have to give the parents a demonstration class so they can decide if the teacher is any good. I asked if this also applied to doctors and airline pilots. Further, if the student fails the teacher carries the can! So teaching in China is a real pressure job. I think the rote learning that Griz is referring to comes from the fact that the language is symbol based, not phonetic, so the only way to learn 10,000 plus symbols is by rote learning. Dodger. |
| Dec 29, 2009 21:39 | #3 |
| You know how we learned English in middle school? Our teacher required to remember all the English words. Besides, we needed to recite the texts. When I was in high school, I tried to recite New Concept English Texts. Also, we had to memorize grammar rules. Because of my good memory, I remembered many English words, texts and grammar rules. During my college entrance examinations, I got full marks in my English writing. After entering the college, we still need to pass CET 4 to get our graduation diplomas. In order to pass CET 4, I kept memorizing English words and practicing my listening skill. Before my graduation, I passed CET 4 and CET 6. Well, my spoken English is just so-so though I have passed CET 4 and CET 6. Chinese students are good at passing exams. We can earn high scores in English tests but many of us can’t speak English fluently. Actually, there are some geniuses in China. When they were young, they won many awards in various kinds of competitions. Some of them even came into the colleges at their twelve. As years pass by, we have never heard any news about them. When they grow up, they become as ordinary as us. I am puzzled. Why do they become ordinary people finally? Dodger, is she in a key school? My high school teachers seldom gave demonstration classes to our parents. But they gave such classes to other teachers and school headmaster. I remembered that how my math teacher in high school gave a demonstration class. He was nervous at that time because it was his first demonstration class. He found some “good students” and told them that he would ask them to answer his questions in the demonstration class. Of course, he already gave them the answers. With the help of those good students, he gave us a very successful demonstration class. And the school headmaster was very satisfied with his performance. "If the student fails the teacher carries the can!” Exactly. If students didn’t earn good scores in exams, their parents just thought that it was the teacher’s fault. They never doubted about their sons or daughters. They are responsible for this too. |
| Dec 29, 2009 22:12 | #4 |
| It's bliss that Chinese children have chance to be educated oversease where the exams or tests are not so awkward as those in China. Here the most recent rank lists the top high schools where most students are children of immigrants from mainland china. which means the way of Chinese education has its positive side. |
| Dec 29, 2009 22:18 | #5 |
| LJ, I have no idea what category this school fall in. I was just recounting the frustration of this teacher. But my point was that because of the way that students have been taught many have fantastic memories. It doesn’t necessarily reflex in their understanding of what they are reading. I take a couple of high school students at the week end for oral classes. They have both completed The New Concept series and probable have a vocabulary of around a 1000 words. You would think that this would be enough to hold a decent conversation. What I have discovered, and don’t take this the wrong way, is that I have two very clever parrots. Dodger. |
| Dec 30, 2009 09:33 | #6 |
| >>>two very clever parrots Perhaps that is true, Dodger, but they know the words; understanding can now follow. When I was acting, I found that I needed to memorize my part before the work of acting could begin. Don't you think that the same applies to learning a language? I can still watch our college girl translating from English to Chinese in her head, but she is lightening fast at it now compared to her first arrival. She will soon be thinking is both English and Chinese. My wife's English learning is much more of a combination method; night classes with adult women and coffeehouse chats in China and living with me in the US far out in the countryside. She is far behind our girl in understanding and fluency. Even though she has memorized many hundreds of words - maybe more than a thousand - I doubt that she will ever truly be fluent. She does, however, effectively communicate by telephone with friends and family in small ways. She does not have enough English to communicate specifics without the electronic translator and struggle; that is frustrating for both of us. >>>...a vocabulary of around a 1000 words. You would think that this would be enough to hold a decent conversation. I've learned that by itself, 1000 words does not make a conversation. Perhaps immersion or life long study are the only ways to achieve fluency. |
| Dec 30, 2009 21:02 | #7 |
| Lonelyjourney, my teachers in middle school did the same thing. They had to make sure that their demonstration class would be successful. Otherwise, they might be in trouble. Dodger, I am a parrot too. As Lonelyjourney said, I also recited some texts, words and grammar rules. To use English words correctly, I need to know grammar rules. Griz, actually I do the same thing llike your daughter. I just translate Chinese into English in my head before I speak them out. Although I have already learned English for ten years, I still can not think like a English native. |
| Dec 31, 2009 02:05 | #8 |
| There’s nothing wrong with being a parrot just as long as you don’t ask Polly what flavour cracker she wants. With respect Griz, I don’t think the actor memorizing his lines analogy really fits with learning English. Actors are in fact parrots reciting lines that someone else has written. What I believe is that many; but not all, Chinese student fail to understand that the alphabet is a representation of a number of sounds. They know the names of the letters but not the sounds that they make. There are 220 dolch words. I am told that they make up between 50 to 70% of most written work. These are usually learnt by memorizing them because they are difficult to sound out using phonetics. But there it ends. My example would be a music student trying to master an instrument and at the same time learning to read music. Learning to read music is not that difficult, it’s the computation time between reading and recognizing the written note, to a further physical and mental function of translating that into a sound with the correct choice of fingering and the formation of the correct embouchure. It’s not until all of these functions are imbedded subconsciously that there can be any fluency. Not many people can master an instrument without playing a note. I don’t see that mush difference in learning a foreign language. On the same theme, I think that too many students are afraid of playing a bum note. I took my Wife to England last Spring Festival. Her English went up overnight by 20%. Immersion defiantly works. Dodger. |
| Jan 4, 2010 12:25 | #9 |
| Whatever the subject is, it all depends on the student. Memorization is important, but it is also important to apply the knowledge. It is also important to think of ideas and think outside the box. My guess is that the problem in American education system is not the schools but the students themselves. I see this all the time. They would rather party, play sports, show off their new shoes/clothes/car than study. I do not know of any other country in the world where a studious student is bullied and labeled as a nerd except in America. Fast forward, the nerds and the geeks are the ones who innovate and become rich/successful. Read: Microsoft's Bill Gates, Apple's Steve Jobs, Amazon's Jeff Bezos. In Asia, nerds are revered. The most popular kids in schools are the ones who won the most medals in Quiz Bees, Spelling Bees, Science Fairs and Math Competitions. In America, the most popular boy is the one who can kick/grab the ball. The most popular girl is the school's bimbo/cheerleader. The heck?!? |
Last edited by SHESGOTTOBE: Jan 4, 2010 12:30 |
| Jan 5, 2010 09:08 | #10 |
| You have just slain the world's actors, Dodger! ;) >>>Actors are in fact parrots reciting lines that someone else has written. I doubt a one of them would agree with you on that point, it takes many years of dedicated study to learn to breath life into a role; that was the basis of my analogy. You have a point, shesgottobe, however, looking at the curricula of grade schools and high schools reveals terrible deficiencies. It is important to think outside of the box, after a disciplined mind knows what a box is... An undisciplined mind is so far outside of the box that they cannot find it. |
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