| married guy dates a Chinese girl | |
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| Feb 13, 2009 08:47 | #31   |
 | I did get a chuckle out of the Men Have More Drama comment. After you have been married a long time, you fall into a routine, life becomes very predictable, career advances, kids come along, material crap piles up, has to paid for, and life becomes mostly predictable amid an ever escalating mass of responsibilty, to work, to clients, to kids, to spouse. And you do it, because, you are a guy, and this is what good guys do, we faithfully discharge our responsibilities to the best of our ability. However, something changes while we do all this year after year. Spontaneity is replaced with routine, you feel alot more tired, weekends come along and you think, thank God, now I can get some real work done because the phone won't be ringing,and I really need to work because the kids need to go to college. Your circle of friends becomes tighter to exclude the single people and to include only other married with kids couples, and then once the kids come along and all their activities, you really don't have time to see even those friends all that much because this one has a kids's baseball game, and that one has piano lessons, and the recitals, and so on and on. I find that in order to see any friends at all we have to make appointments with them weeks in advance. About two years ago I met an old buddy of mine who I had not seen in 20 years, and after we spent some time together and got alone, he was commenting about how much change had occurred in me, how I had become so much of a family man, so serious, so driven by career. Initially I thought he was complementing me. I answered, why yes, thank you, I have had alot of personal and professional growth over the last twenty years. It took me awhile to realize that while he respected the path I followed, it wasn't exactly a complement. He wasn't disparaging my choice of lifestyle, so much as correctly observing the youthful spontaneity, excitement, craziness, devil may care person that used to be me, was GONE. To go on the Prowl - hah, I enjoyed that comment too . Guys like me that are ball and chained to career and family and with all that goes with it, don't have time or the energy or even the confidence to go on the Prowl. I was just titting after a job in a foreign port having that oh so essential glass of wine to unwind before dinner and WHAM, this vision of loveliness slams into my life like the Titantic hitting an iceberg, with the potentially the same consequences. And no, she was not on the prowl for me either. She seated me at a table, I saw her glance at the ring on my finger, business was slow, we had polite conversation followed by a flash of mutual recognition, which followed with deeper conversation . And now, I get to figure out how to reintroduce my Old Self into my life as it is now, minus her. Well, I see things now in a new light. My old self is not GONE, just buried, thats all. |
| Feb 13, 2009 13:58 | #32 |
| There is no right or wrong answer to mans mid life dilemma. Every man must face it from the perspective of his own individual morality formed through his unique life experiences. With the realisation that there are more years behind you than in front of you inevitably comes the atempt to rekindle that spark that made you a man. Unfortunately the path you ultimately choose for your declining years eventually defines your entire life in the eyes of others. You only have one life. Should it be savoured?..or sacrificed. There is no right or wrong answer. As Shakespear so eloquently wrote..."Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so". |
| Feb 13, 2009 16:41 | #33 |
| Thanks Bobert and so many others who have commented, regardless of your opinion of all this. With few exception your opinions have been received respectfully and listened to. Nontheless. I came here knowing full well no one was going to approve, I'm glad a few understand that these situations arise from circumstances a little more complicated and involved that you might think. The person I am really trying to understand is HER, which is why I came here to begin with. Unfortunately, she is not here. Well, I guess I could invite her, wouldn't that make for some great reading. Maybe not. In any case, I heard back from her today after several days of silence since I suggested we just be friends. We talked on the phone some. She is glad to be my friend, wished me a happy valentines day. Looks forward to my next visit (looks like in about 2-3 weeks I have to go back there - no really - I actually have to go back there because of work) Those of you either from China, or know it real well, tell me if its unusual for a younger woman to kind of have this sort of relationship with a older guy, especially a foreignor and who is a married man. Does society really frown on it(of course it does) but somehow tolerates it in certain circumstances. Is there a segment of society where this is not unusual? The ladies who get into that situation, why do they do it, they want no commitments but enjoy the attention? Or do they think if they wait it out, they can have it all? Or is just a thrill by newly independent women? I am not sure what it is with her, next time I see her I am going to ask, but would enjoy hearing from you folks most knowledgheable about China, what might be going on here? |
| Feb 13, 2009 17:21 | #34 |
| I am regularly told by all and sundry in China that I "think too much". It's a fair comment and I think you are burdened with the same problem. If you dwell too much analysing her motivations you will go mad. If you worry about what society thinks you will also go mad, but quicker. Either accept she wants a relationship with you, or don't. This may well be the biggest mistake of your life but you have to decide if that risk is worth taking. You need to be crystal clear about the one thing you have control over, your own motivations. Decide that... then don't look back. |
| Feb 13, 2009 17:33 | #35 |
| P.S. My apologies for plagiarising Arthur C. Clarke but........ you would have more chance of mating with a Petunia than understanding the motivations or intricacies of a Chinese womens mind. |
| Feb 13, 2009 21:26 | #36 |
| I concur, one can over analyse. However, this is new territory here and I need to understand the cultural dimension this takes place in very quickly. You guys have been a little too loud on what I am doing and a little too quiet about what is happening in China, so I hunted around and found the Chinese have a word for it, Er'nai. Per wikipedia (where anyone can be an instant expert) says "Chinese men have been able to legally have only one wife. It was common for privileged Chinese men to have a wife and various concubines, however. For those who could afford a dowry and support a family of multiple concubines and children, polygyny provided a better chance of issuing heirs" I guess it slowed down some after 1930, but then picked up again with CHinas - and Taiwan's - economic boon "Taiwanese businessmen have gone to China to invest and do business there. While in Taiwan, many have become involved in extramarital affairs with local women, creating an international division of labour in both families and intimate relations. Taiwanese wives are categorized as 'the first wives', a term that is largely associated with the conventional duties of a housewife as the primary caregiver for the family. Chinese women are categorized as 'mistresses', a label that portrays them as intruders into these Taiwanese families and stigmatizes them with the strong sexual and entertainment implications of their relationships with these men" ( http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/ Who are the Chinese mistresses? "BEIJING - Many women in China resort to the pariah status of being a mistress to a married man not because of love but economic survival, a survey said. Conducted in the southern province of Guangdong, where many rich Hongkong and Chinese men put up mistresses in apartments, the survey found that 74.5 per cent of mistresses became an er nai or 'second wife' to shake off poverty, the Chinese news portal Sina.com said. Only 13 per cent of the women said they did it for love while 42 per cent said it did not bother them never having a legal marital status. Most of the mistresses were poor young women from the countryside or those made unemployed in cities. The survey said the widespread practice of women becoming mistresses highlighted the lack of social security in China, where the poor are left to fend for themselves with minimal or no help from the government. " http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/ I have no conclusions yet, really really have to think this through now. |
| Feb 13, 2009 22:13 | #37 |
| AMPILOT, I think your statement could strike a sympathetic chord among middle aged honest working men and women (including Chinese). Down grading your situations to Er'nai is ridiculouse. If you limit your views on China to some vulgar chinese media or CCTV which i never watched, you will never understand Chinese. Er'nai is a special circle like undergroud prostitutions. Hunger and poor women in lower class who have no intention to liberrize themselves thur honest work and up to the Er'Nai who works for those corrupt officials are boomed in late 80 or early 90 and used to be a chinese unique social landscape, as ordinary chinese, I just knew it from official media and never saw it. I believe the dirty corner will be and is being washed with china going to prosperity, but it takes time. By the way, Shanghainese despise Taiwanbiz men " street vendors' or farmers who usually as far as i can remember opened small family biz in the small villiage near shanghai. |
| Feb 14, 2009 14:53 | #38 |
| Thank you cool spring, more of the kind of commentary I was looking for. When I read about Er'nai, I was uncomfortable, it does not sound at all like the situation that I am in or want to be in. She is not poor or disadvantaged and while I think she might be looking for some help to come to the US, this is a far cry from the situation described as Er'nai. Still, I was concerned about perceptions, that is, how she might see herself in this situation or how others might see it. Don't worry, I have no idea where to even find some vulgar chinese media and have no idea what CCTV is. It looks like a trip to Barnes and Nobles bookstore is in order so I can pick up where college social science class have left off. On the perception issue, let me give you an example of what I am thinking about. Some years ago I was in El Salvador on business meeting a client, and afterwards he suggested I and some El Salvadoran friends meet for dinner. At dinner, he came with a woman not quite as old as he was, which, I assumed was his spouse. My El Salvadoran associate with me whispered, senor, that is not his wife, that his girl friend of 20 years. He still lived with his wife, sometimes it seem. The El Salvadorans present seemed to think this was a situation completely unworthy of note except somebody please tell the Yank so he does not do or say anything stupid. I traveled alot too with a Cuban distributor, and he used to tell me about all the fantastic girl friends he had in Central America. He too was married, I met his wife and knew most of his family, and I am pretty sure he was not telling me anything they did not know. The thing I got about reading about Er'nai was that there was a kind of a stigma attached to the girl who became the mistress. Comparing an American executive who has a girl friend on the side to a El Salvadoran executive, I don't believe an American executive would take his mistress of 15 years to a business dinner. The thing that would make people uncomfortable would not be the morality of the issue so much as it would be the other american executives at the dinner would be taken aback by the lack of discretion and privacy. You can do it, but we don't want to know about it, and if you do tell us, we are going to wonder how smart a business man you are. In listening to conversations with my sisters and women colleagues at work, I don't hear them call a women who pursues a married man immoral, they just say, "that's not smart girl, you are going to get hurt". So, where is it with the my Chinese lady friend in the islands? If she tells her friends or a family member, will they simply say, "that's not smart girl" or will they cause her a loss of honor and respect and her self esteem suffer? I would not want to cause that. |
| Feb 14, 2009 17:19 | #39 |
| I never judge, but i can tell you that you are beginnig to be screwed up by ''confirmation bias'' (it's a concept used in auditing) which operates in subconscious, nudging one to look for 'data' (in this case, you use Er'Nai as 'data') that confirm your BELIEFS and prompting one to ignore or downplay the belief you originally gave in this thread. I am not growing up in boyfriend and girlfriend cultures where friendship between opposit sex are defenitely not prohibited. So what' your BELEFS now. Nobody can distort your PURE friendship unless you want to. Be a good husband and father. If you have a easy and comfortable life, think something challenging to do for self-achievment and let your wife and children to be proud of you! |
| Feb 15, 2009 01:41 | #40 |
| I can't help wondering why you are so concerned about what "society" would think of this union. If it were me, that would be the least of my concerns. It is none of their business and their petty minded judgements should be none of yours either. As to your fixation for uncovering her motivation for taking up with a married guy...who knows! Who cares!! It could be any of countless unfathomable reasons. She is not be the first and definately wont be the last to tread this path. Make a decision...then move on. |
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