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Fun with Chinese
Sep 6, 2006 04:11
#11  
  • MAY001
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o, verb, how can you come across this fact? You know every woman in China?
Sep 6, 2006 19:55
#12  
  • LOVEISVERB
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OK, that is a tough question, baby:))

Here is what I think about <feminism in China or feminist Chinese>: there were a group of people took great effort in bringing Feminism into China, a small group of people. They translated Henrik Ibsen's "A Doll’s House " in the very beginning of 20th century. In the drama, the heroine Nora ran away from home because her husband treated her like a doll... There were a few educated women who had chances to watch the drama got so excited with this new idea: O, wow, women can run away from home, from their husbands!! Some of them followed suit, they ran away from their husbands or from the arranged marriages, happy ones or not, they needed to tell others that they were "New Type of Women 新女性" they made the change of their life for change's sake. At last, smart people asked a tough question: what happened after Nora ran away? What happened after Chinese NoraS ran away? How could they surport themselves, they don't have any money? So, the Great Escape wasn't a success. But this Mr. Henrik Ibsen was remembered by Chinese ever since and treated like the one brought difference to the already disordered China.

There was no result in the Feminist Movement, except women started to cut short their hair, went to the cinamas with boys, wearing things that saved lots of cloth, just like western woman, etc etc

The feminism in the West covered a whole lot of things and theories. But personally, I think feminism (including the so called Chinese Feminism) was started by MEN who had ulterior motives: free your mind, free your body, so ....... at least in China, women wouldn't cut off their arms or fingers because they were touched by men; They wouldn't hang themselves because they got sexual harassment, blah, blah, blah ... <it's ok men will not admit that, hoho!> so, women were considerably open and men were more considerably happy about that. hohoho~~~
Sep 6, 2006 21:31
#13  
  • PINETREE
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If only more have the analytical brain power like hers.
Sep 7, 2006 04:55
#14  
  • MISHEN
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Oh dear... feminism is a wide ranging and multilayered collection of ideals - not such a simple thing as 'be free to do... with me' - and it certainly was not invented by men.

As for whether or not there is feminism in China, there are to varying degrees I believe - if there is any improvement in the freedom of women to live their lives as they choose, then that is a small victory for feminism.

As for the characters, I invented them with a class when we were talking about the changes in the English language caused by feminism. They're just for fun, and most people I asked don't really like them. But it does make you think about the way women are represented in the Chinese character system!
Sep 7, 2006 06:53
#15  
  • LOVEISVERB
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ai........ya...........! It's ok you didn't see the joking manner in my reply, sorry I did that too much, and like you said: just for fun. :)) I did not seriously believe that men invented feminism - to be clear. But "free your mind.... thing " was the by-product of feminism. Hahaha~~

I was aware that Western feminism contained a whole lot of stuff, that was why I chose not to talk about it :)), this we talked about feminist Chinese, right?

QUOTE mishen:

As for whether or not there is feminism in China, there are to varying degrees I believe - if there is any improvement in the freedom of women to live their lives as they choose, then that is a small victory for feminism.
...................................................

There is improvement in the freedom of the whole world, there is improvement in the living standard of the whole Chinese, there is improvement in the education level in China in general too, so, that is big victory for the righteous power, that is at the same time the big victory of human over the nature, that is also the big victory of China over the western trespassers - at least that was right in about the past 200 years! So, the improvement in the freedom of women to live their lives better than ever as they chose, that was mostly the by-product of the above mentioned victories. One thing is certain, we learned something from the west, some we learned really well, some we didn't, like feminism. And that was the big victory of Confucianism over western civilization.

Alright, one thing I am now clear about is: this forum does not allow feminism, so I'd better run..... hahaha~~~

joking.......... LOL
Sep 7, 2006 06:57
#16  
  • PINETREE
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I think the point on feminism is missed. There shouldn't be any feeling of victory for feminism at all if the female chooses whichever way that she thinks she is happy with.
The point in Verb's message is, I believe, is it for the better after all ? Having the freedom of choice, wearing less, free sex, equality, etc does it mean the female specie is happier ? If it is, then fine. But it may not be so.
Are we happier today than Adam was in his Garden of Eden ? This is for the individual to decide for herself.
Sep 9, 2006 05:20
#17  
  • LEMONCACTUS
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What an interesting idea !

How should we read the character '好' ?

女 woman
子 child/son (?)

Is this derogatory to women because it suggests that only a woman with a child is a good thing, therefore reinforcing traditional stereotypes ?

OR

Is it derogatory to men because they are not included?

And does 子 actually translate as son or child or both ?

This prompts me to ask another question which is perhaps a little naive, but I am only learning Mandarin and I'm curious. The English language is constantly changing, adapting/modifying existing words and adding new ones. Is the same true of Mandarin...?
Sep 11, 2006 02:12
#18  
  • MISHEN
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Interesting... when I talked about this with my students, although noone seriously contemplated recreating the Chinese language and eradicating feudalist leftovers, we did wonder if it would be better to change 'nv' (woman) for 'ren' (person). That wouldn't work with 'hao' though, because there is already a word that consists of 'ren' and 'zi' - maybe the 'zi' could be substituted with 'tong'? Or is that even going too far for this hypothetical?
Sep 14, 2006 23:12
#19  
  • MISHEN
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Is it just me, or do other foreigners have difficulty writing the simple character 'nv' and making it look normal?
Jun 15, 2007 08:01
#20  
or why not just change your conversation, i begin to feel a pression :-)))
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