| Why do overseas Chinese men seldom marry western women? | |
|---|---|
| Nov 25, 2009 09:25 | #221   |
| GUESTHK ARTS... | Second post: Next, I have something to say about dating itself. Now, our consensus so far is to draw a distinction between dating and marriage. So a lot of folks agree that Chinese guys generally make very nice family men but usually fail miserably as lovers. 1) I've been single all my life (no need to ridicule me; I got the same syndromes as those poor Asian folks in the western world; been working on it), esp. because I was never taught to be aggressive, and I've been passive anyway even as a little boy. That's my problem and I don't blame the others. Nor am I representative at all, because I've witnessed countless Chinese guys of my background being great womanizers/lovers (to be positive). They were all born and raised in the Chinese world, and still they make good lovers even with (well, I know, only very few of them do date) western women or non-Chinese women in general. It's not even interracial. Chinese men like other people of other nationalities just won't marry that many non-Chinese women, other East Asian ones included. Within the Chinese world, marrying somebody from another province isn't that commonplace either, and there such couples ALSO have cultural misunderstanding because China is a huge country with lots of traditions and cultures and languages. I personally know few Chinese from a different province, like most folks around me. Now, back to dating. In my society, dating is far less common among high achievers at school. I must admit that even Hong Kong is, after all, largely Chinese and college guys and girls are still rather shy about dating itself. If you are male, you'll know what it means to fear rejection. I don't fear it that much, but when... at the college, you see that most girls, who had been high achievers at high school, just can't attract any guys at all, just because their look is too discouraging. I've even known a lot of girls there without ever any chance to ask them out, or even meet as ordinary classmates, without embarrassing myself. First, I'm in no way interested. I'm not really afraid of staying single even after college. Second, if a girl is shy, she too has a chance (though lower, empirically, than unsociable guys) of staying single even approaching her 30s. It happens a lot to Chinese women in Hong Kong. Third, I have to admit that Chinese people in the Chinese society care a lot about MONEY, and without the money, and more importantly some living abilities, I wouldn't risk asking anybody out. See? I'm consciously choosing to remain single, because I know I won't have a lot of luck in college, although from time to time I try to see if a Chinese girl (here non-Chinese girls are rare; it's a Chinese place) would be a good match with me. My focus now is not look either, but COMMUNICATION. |
| Nov 25, 2009 09:33 | #222 |
| GUESTHK ARTS... | 3rd post: 1) Of coz, the above is about my personal choice. Colleges here are just as competitive for potential mates, I admit that too. In our society, it's still always the nerds/nice guys who finish last. No question about it. I just wrote the 1st post to debunk the dichotomy. But also, the Chinese society in general does place so much emphasis on utilitarianism, money, status, etc. So it's hugely difficult for low achievers to date anyone. It's unlike in the western society where pure sexual attraction clicks on more easily and directly than Chinese people. Many girls I know of, or even know well, are very averse to sex. I've heard of a minority of couples who won't even have sex and wait for marriage to have it. Normally many couples now also follow the western liberal norm of having pre-marital sex, (which is said to be even more notorious in mainland China) but still, almost all Chinese girls I know of (I don't know any Asian American girls; ONLY those born and raised in this Chinese society), they are actually averse to flirting and the kind of dating you see as normal in any other (western) society. (Well.... IMNVHO, many of them look repulsive anyway, so I don't care). 2) Here's my positive part of this post. I did come across dozens of western girls (mostly European), and they stroke me as hugely attractive, because they were more honest (they said what they meant), less materialistic (than some really nasty Chinese girls who are simply golddiggers, or expect too much from male partners), and more importantly they are more open-minded, more relaxed, more liberal, more generous (esp. in treating me as equal). Western girls look to me more egalitarian and don't believe much in the patriarchal shit as quite a lot of Chinese girls who implicitly believe, who concede, who don't admit, and who use it to abuse Chinese men. |
| Nov 25, 2009 09:47 | #223 |
| GUESTHK ARTS... | I'll end my discussion today with an important remark: So, after all, how come so few Chinese guys get even just to know western women? Apart from demographic reasons, now, I'm speaking of Chinese guys in Chinese societies in particular, the thing is they have some traditional thoughts/cultural misunderstandings 1) They think western women are too sexually open/independent/headstrong. This actually applies to men in general and thus has no weight. 2) They don't approach them out of fear of poor communication due to language/cultural barriers. This is valid but not specific to Chinese guys. When I was in Europe, people also had difficulty with me, wrongly assuming that I couldn't speak the local language as an Asian-looking person. And 2) is particularly influential. Psychologically speaking, other than racial concerns, non-Chinese women shouldn't have problems at all with Chinese guys. Here, I'll concede that Chinese guys don't know how to date well, me included, but this has to do with cultural practices than inherent cultural traits. Chinese guys don't usually pick up Chinese girls in bars (we don't have bars at large), but instead try to know them in classes/elsewhere where they can talk a lot. It's very seldom that they can pick somebody up after a few pick-up lines or in a bar, because VERY few (except liberal/westernized/promiscuous, etc, girls will ever go to bars) girls ever go to bars, and pick-up lines will almost certainly fail, unless you are a hugely cool guy. I heard of western women saying that it may be a good idea to know Chinese guys in a cafe. the moment you try to pick up in this way, you might well be embarrassed, if the girl 1) is very hostile, as in the case of most materialistic ones. I can't tell exactly here, but many many Chinese women in this kind of situation, since they aren't western either and usually are shy, they too will embarrass the guys and themselves anyway. They aren't like western girls who welcome any sort of dialogs in the lift/cafe/library/anywhere. They will stare at you until you feel guilty, and actually retreat their eye contact as soon as you bump into them, again unless you are really cool. So, I hate to admit, this is how especially Hong Kong girls don't do it for me much now. 1) they are too shy and socially inept, embarrassing even the most inviting guys. 2) it's very difficult to start conversations because they usually know so little about things/lack small talks/make the whole situation screwed up and very stressful. Shy girls aren't inherently innocent, remind you. 3) the more active, not so shy ones are often so prejudiced that they'll talk me off or give me really hostile gaze. I never had much success even in creating connections with Hong Kong girls. It's less difficult with other Chinese girls, but a number of them harbor the same kind of arrogant character. With western girls I almost never had difficulty, except a few who I just didn't have any interesting things to talk to. |
| Dec 4, 2009 20:46 | #224 |
| GUESTLINDA |  this i have to agree with, I have a chinese young man who is like a son to me and he was born in China 6 years ago and lives in my household now, and we are sooo much more a like in our personallities and likes and dislikes, more than anyother person in mylife, ive ever known we both are totally astonished. |
| Jan 6, 2010 14:39 | #225 |
| GUEST53534 | I have been living in the States for 40 years and married two American women. I find attractiveness in both blonds and the Chinse women. Being in this country, I just do not want to limit my choices to a minority. The Western culture is very label, ideological oriented, instead of content. The Easterners tend to believe otherwise. Some of the labels and images were created by the West in a certain historic context, for some not unselfish reasons. And they are changing. At this age, the Chinese men tend to be more driven, successful, therefore confident inside and even more cultured. They are in general more adaptable, anything that they don't already have they can always learn. They are more reserved in a social situation to approach the white woman, because they felt it is not a gentleman's thing and crude to bring sex in the air in public. They had to learn about not only their culture, but the Western culture as well. They can and will learn the mannerism and the way they dress how to treat women, or building up their physique, if they feel it is the right thing to do. As for physical attributes, there are pros and cos for either. The Westerners may blossom earlier in life but hard to maintain the weight or age. |
| Jan 6, 2010 15:02 | #226 |
| GUEST53534 | There are some deep cultural issues. The Chinese are more "honest" or "stubborn" about their words. This is not necesssarily a bad quality. They sometimes feel Americans just say "sorry" to try to get away of situations but not really believe it, as politicians do all the time. Once you say sorry, it is a word on the heart (so as I love you) and will always be remembered in any subequent encounters. |
| Jan 17, 2010 11:07 | #227 |
| GUESTTSIEN | My perception about western culture is that basically it is a matriarchy when it comes to dating. This is in contrast with Chinese culture which is more or less patriarchal in structure and this contrast does not help us much. So, for a Chinese man, who is absolutely conscious about his asian culture, it looks ridiculous to go on the dating ground making the first step toward a western woman. This first thing that comes to the mind is one has to play the game of the puppet and the other one the puppet master. So, for any later generation Chinese who live in a western country, playing the game of western people is rather straightforward. I am talking about those who are fully absorbed by the culture. In chinese culture where there is still more possibility of friendship between men and women, dating is not a one-man show where the female is the puppet master but instead, there is reciprocity whether the woman likes the man or not. Here, reciprocity means the woman will participate in a relationship friendly or politely even if it does not last. In western culture it’s more like a one-man show similar to a movie where the hero will vanquish all evils to get rewarded in the end. While in reality, there may be more frustrations than rewards. During all this, the woman decides about the scenario of the movie. Even if the media portrays asian men as nerds or other unattractive brainiacs, the most difficult barrier is still culture related. Well this is approximately a summation of the situation as a personal perception which may be shared by other Chinese men whether it is consciously or unconsciously. As for western men and asian women, things are just the opposite. The western man who “escapes” from a matriarchy experiences such “relief” meeting an asian woman who may also experience a “similar relief”. She does not have to shoulder the responsibility of “defending” or preserving her asian culture vis-à-vis the western man. In asian societies it is the men who defend or decide about how the culture should be, so the women are more or less relieved of this task. Since that western man is used to making the first step easily, his effort is “so quickly” rewarded when it comes to dating an asian woman. No game, no hoop, just plain business. But this does not imply that asian women are easier than other women. It means that, due to every favorable conditions, cultural or otherwise, this relationship occurs much faster and much more often than if it were the other way round (western women vs. Chinese men). This disparity between the two situations is often overlooked or misunderstood. The most common misinterpretation is asian women are beautiful and asian men are ugly (or whatever). When it comes to dating, western territory belongs to western women, and eastern territory belongs to asian men. Between those two territories, western men and asian women have it much easier than the other way round. |
| Jan 18, 2010 15:18 | #228 |
| GUEST17142 | Your observations and comparisons are snapshots of different cultures. Sometimes you are comparing the wrong snapshots. The patriarchal traditions are in both the Chinese culture and the the European culture and earlier American culture in that the estate goes to the oldest son, who has the responsibility of the estate. The name "bastard" in the West and the son form the concubine in China do not have much rights. Here the woman is married to the husband's estate. Now things are also changing in China. The culture of working in a company/heirachical/operational environment is more so in China. There is no clear separation between ideas and operations. Words can be dangerous. You are in general polite, don't talk back to your boss, until are able to undermind him. May be what you call puppet and puppeteer. Lack of safety net for survivial, the human relationships are more important in China, between all people with to without sex. Many of the Chinese mannerism the West still needs to understand. The Chinese men and women are in general more polite, partly because of the gentleman's culture(Confucius) and partly because they in general want to understand what is behind, in a strategic calculation for actions. (Remember it is not right or wrong ideas, but consider the best time to take what actions.) Man inherits the family estate:the Chinese family is similar to the European family. Don't be fooled by the surface demeaner of the Chinese women or the Chinese men for that matter. Once you know them. They are calculative and when the time comes, are hard as nails. For the simple reason that mother have more interests looking over the education of the children, both Chinese and Western husbands have difficulties of carrying the culture of the father. Nowadays, the Chinese men are in general more serious, driven and take care of themselves...where flirting is close to talking nonsenses, to be avoided by a gentleman. I am sure this mannersm will change as they are more comfortable with this society. |
| Jan 23, 2010 14:02 | #229 |
| GUEST26167 | I can't understand why people make it so difficult. I'm Chinese, grew up in the United States, and I almost never had a problem dating white girls. In fact, I am married a lovely blond. Some of my Chinese friends ask me how do I do it, how do I date white girls and I tell them is simple: just talk to them. Of course, once in a while I got rejected or even ignored, but that never discouraged me trying. I am sure there are lots of white girls out there who love to date Asians. Some of my ex even complained about Asian guys not asking them out. I even dated white girls from the southern states like Texas and Georgia. So guys, my message to you is if you like a white girl, don''t be afraid to talk to her and ask her out. You'll be surprise how many would say yes |
| Jan 27, 2010 08:21 | #230 |
| GUESTROBERT | I am a Canadian male who has dated women from various societies, including Chinese, and I'm surprised at the question regarding the imbalance. Several Chinese women have told me that Western males treat them as equals, and that Chinese men treat them as inferiors. Chinese males, generally, like males from other patriarchal (read: primitive) societies, prefer their women to be obedient and docile, which is why they are seldom able to date Western women. They cannot psychologically deal with women as equals, and so cannot generally form a healthy relationship (equal partnership) as Westerners see it. They are looking for someone to adopt a subservient role, and Western women have generally moved way beyond that kind of thinking. The saying "Women hold up half the sky in China" may be true, but only if one considers that they hold up the heavy half. Second-generation Chinese males don't tend to have the problem to the same degree, since they were exposed to Western society since childhood. Until Chinese and other patriarchal societies mature, there will always be a barrier for the males. |
Post a Reply to: Why do overseas Chinese men seldom marry western women?
Copyright © 1998-2024 All rights reserved.